Dukkha and Soulmaking (Part 1)

This talk was initially planned as the second of a series of four. It's now the third of a series of five. In it, I would like to talk a little bit about dukkha and soulmaking. Now, this is, I think, a really huge, vast, and complex subject. It's also what we might call an open field, an open subject, in that what we emphasize, what we conclude, and the paths we weave and clear in this whole area depends a lot on conceptual frameworks and ways of looking that we develop and implement and catch, and how we use terms such as 'soulmaking' and 'imaginal,' etc. In other words, what arises for us in terms of suffering in the context of soulmaking, how soulmaking addresses and impacts on suffering, depends very much on what we mean by 'soulmaking,' what we mean by 'imaginal' and 'eros' and all these other words, and our larger conceptual framework. So it's open. We're in the process of creating and discovering our ways in all of this. Because of that largeness and complexity and all of that, this talk is only going to look at some areas of this whole domain, and some strands within that.

Mostly what I want to focus on in this talk, which will almost certainly have several parts, mostly what I want to talk about is how imaginal perception, imaginal practice, how sensing with soul -- the different ways, or some of the different ways it can relieve and ease dukkha, bring about some relief or even ending of suffering. And similarly, within the whole soulmaking paradigm, similar ways that eros or working with desire skilfully and with discernment can do something similar in terms of freedom from suffering, relief, ease from dis-ease. I also a little bit want to perhaps touch on, what do we mean by dukkha? What kinds of dukkha are we talking about when we say dukkha, and the Four Noble Truths and all this, and the causes of dukkha? What are our conceptions of dukkha? What possible conceptions of dukkha might we bring to bear, and conceptions of the causes of dukkha, and also of freedom from dukkha, and relief from dukkha, or alleviation of dukkha? In other words, the kind of paradigm of the Four Noble Truths, and how it relates to a soulmaking path. So touching a little bit on that, and also in the next talk, hopefully.

A third area that I want to open up a little bit is just to highlight some of the ways and areas where this kind of practice, soulmaking practices, this kind of work, this kind of exploration, asks for care. We need to take care with certain elements. And what does that mean? What's involved in that? Which elements, and how? There are certain, perhaps, things that we need to be aware of in the whole endeavour, in the whole movement and exploration. There may be certain things or aspects that we may regard as kind of prerequisites -- you know, it's good if this and that are in place, if we already have a facility, a skill, a capacity to do this, to do that, that we have that under our belt.

Without that kind of care, without those kind of awarenesses, and without those kind of prerequisites, it's sometimes possible that practising with eros, practising with desire, or trying these practices, practising with the imaginal, actually brings dukkha, because we're not taking care. There's not enough awareness of certain aspects and areas, and not enough sensitivity and attention, and we don't have certain prerequisites. So that's another piece of all this that I would like to dwell on. That's what I want to start with: areas where we might need to take care, where, and what does that look like, what might that look like, aspects/elements that we might need to pay attention to, to be aware of, to bring into our awareness, and what might be prerequisites for this kind of path, explorations, practices.

I think I said before -- I can't remember which retreat; sometime in the last couple of years -- that one could say, "Well, this soulmaking business, and these practices, they're pretty advanced." Maybe that's true. It's a word I tend to shy away from, myself. But we could say that, and I could go along with that. I think it's fair to say, using different vocabulary, that the soulmaking path, as we are unfolding it, outlining, opening it up, describing it, exploring it, it asks a lot of us. It demands quite a lot: a lot of know-how, we might say; a lot of skills or arts in relation to a lot of domains of our being and experience.

So, for example, with respect to our emotional life, and the life of our heart, and the needs of our heart; and with respect to body and energy body, what we're calling energy body awareness; with respect to being in a dyad or a twoness, in relationship with some kind of other, whether that's a human other, a totally intrapsychic imaginal other, an other in nature, whether we ourselves become in some way an erotic-imaginal other to another aspect of ourselves -- how we are in twoness, whether we lose ourselves, whether we can't connect, whether we have our body and our sensitivity there; all of that, that whole domain of sets of skills and awarenesses and arts, if you like, it asks of us quite a degree of sensitivity in our mindfulness, of what we can actually pay attention to, notice, stay focused on, attuned to, really opening up the realms of subtle discriminations, subtle awareness, etc. It's asking of us the art of engaging and entertaining concepts and whole conceptual frameworks without losing our body, and the connection with our body, and the fullness of that, and the beauty and richness and juiciness of that -- nor our heart. What is it to have all those three aspects of our being -- body, heart, and intellect and mind -- in that sense?

It's also asking of us that we have some capacity (and some also capacity for growth) with regards to these qualities that I mentioned -- for instance, humility, and reverence, and the awareness and sense of beauty, and sensitivity to beauty. It's asking that we are able, that we have developed or are developing the skills, the arts, of handling energies in and through the body, of handling and working skilfully with our eros, and the energy of our desire, and the movements of our desire; that we can discern between eros and craving -- such an important distinction in this kind of work. It's asking, too, this whole path, this whole journey and everything it involves, it actually asks of us quite a set of relational skills, which I'll come back to today. We also need really basic kind of insight meditation skills, like just the ability and capacity to drop something, even if it's fascinating or beguiling or gripping or intense. Can you actually put it down, let it go, let go of this image, let go of that eros, in many cases? Sometimes that's the skilful move within the larger movement of the path. And it asks of us all the more commonly taught and spoken about set of Dharma skills -- loving-kindness (mettā), mindfulness, some degree of skill with samādhi, knowing what works for you there, some understanding and a little bit of skill with emptiness, etc.

So it's quite a lot, you know. Maybe that warrants the word, the epithet, the adjective 'advanced.' I don't know. It's also probably, I think, fair to say that this path, these practices, these kind of investigations and explorations, playing in this way, can (often does; not all the time, but at least at times for everyone) 'bring up a lot,' so to speak, if we use that phrase. Or we could say it pushes on a lot in our being, in our psychological and psychic make-up. It opens and stretches a lot -- again, whether that's in terms of our heart, our emotions and our emotionality, whether it's in terms of energies that we experience from time to time, whether it's in terms of our views, and the views we have of self, of others, of world, of existence, of desire, of all kinds of things. Also psychologically, you know, it pushes on quite a lot, or it can push on, bring up quite a lot at times -- certain things that have gotten stuck in us or fixated. Also, we're including the possibility the eros does become sexual at times. Remember, 'eros' doesn't only mean sexual attraction and energy, but it includes that. So it may bring up things around our relationship with desire, around our whole sexuality and how that is for us, sometimes, for some people. All this arises.

[12:53] Now, many of you already practising in this way or introduced in this way, playing in this way, have already seen, felt, experienced for yourselves just what kind of openings are possible here. And many of you are, I know, really, really touched, and almost amazed and taken with this way of practising, and what it can draw into its orbit, and include, and redeem, and transform, and open up. And you will also realize, if that's the case, or many of you, I hope, will realize, that for all that beauty and opening and grace and gift to be possible in a way that's long-term sustainable, that we need to kind of inquire into, "Well, what are the elements of this path?"

Like when the Buddha talks about the eightfold path, it's like, "What makes this sustainable?" He doesn't just say, "Go and be intensely mindful," or "Just zip through the jhānas" or whatever, "Just contemplate emptiness, and just let go." What actually makes this kind of path sustainable? What are the elements? What are the essential pieces of equipment that we need to take on this journey, if you like? I really, as I said before, want to kind of walk a tightrope somewhat in some of these talks, and really want to be encouraging. I don't want to be forbidding at all. As I said, many of you have already been really surprised by just what is possible, even with a little bit of practice in these kind of ways. But there's also this question of, yeah, can we bring a maturity, a psychological maturity, to looking at the whole path and what it might need? What is good practice in the long-term? What is good taking care of myself, taking care of the soul, taking care of this path and practices?

So in the context of really wanting to encourage and offer freely these teachings, and for the long-term, balancing that with a kind of encouragement also to reflect. Each one of us, if I want, if you want, to open in this way, to explore in these ways and move in these ways of soulmaking, what do I, what do you, need to develop? What are the essential elements of the path or pieces of kit for the journey? So we can be kind of universal in answers to that, but a lot of it's quite individual as well. What do I need? Where I am right now as a human being, with my history, the teachings that I've had, the practices that I've developed, the skills, the things I've worked through, my psychological history, my different capacities and needs, etc. -- what do I need to develop, me, myself, right now, where I am, if I'm attracted to this path, if I want to open it up and move forward in a way that's really fertile, and fruitful, and sustaining, and beautiful? That doesn't mean it's always going to be easy. Even if I have all these pieces and elements, even if I'm taking care in these ways, it will be challenging at times. But just that really makes it actualizable, realizable, not just kind of sounds good and exciting, or just some fireworks that kind of flare up, look amazing, and then very shortly thereafter just disappear without a trace.

I'll talk about some of these pieces. I've mentioned quite a few already. But if I find, and you find, that a foundational piece or an area needs some more work, it's quite possible to decide to focus on that piece for a while or that area for a while, without forgetting or giving up on the bigger intention or the larger love of soulmaking and that whole trajectory, that whole movement. I keep that in sight. I know what I want to develop. I know where I want to go. I know what calls my soul and my heart. And I also see that right now this piece is important: "Actually, that's quite interesting, too, this piece." And that's part of the whole journey. If I want to get there, then I need to go over here. Maybe this bit is a little bit of a rocky terrain, or it's a little dark here, or I'm a little bit lost in a forest, but I have a kind of map, or it's kind of uphill for a while. Just that whole attitude of, "Okay, I'm not losing sight of the bigger picture of my soul's desire, and that bigger calling and yearning, but right now, I'm going to focus on this. I'm going to develop this piece. This is good." There's a kind of maturity in that. There's a psychological maturity in that kind of view.

There's also, if you like, a maturing possible there of our fire and our eros for the path. In other words, a wise or mature discerning, longing to travel the path, a wise burning of our fire for soulmaking involves, at times, actually going slower, actually staying in one place for a while and developing something or other, putting certain foundations in place, making sure we have the right footwear, if you like, or whatever it is. This translates, or you see this in many other traditions. For instance, in Tibetan Buddhism, you will know that there are lots of preliminaries for the bulk of the path, and especially when you get to tantric Vajrayāna practices. Practitioners are regularly required to do 100,000 prostrations. That's hard work physically. 100,000 prostrations before you even start on something that might seem a lot more exciting or sexy to you. Or 100,000 mantra recitations or whatever.

So this is part of the maturing of the vision. It's part of preparing the soul -- the humility, the patience. [It's] part of also maturing the fire, tending the fire. Or there are those Zen stories where a practitioner goes seeking out a certain teacher for their teaching, and is kind of made to sit outside the teacher's cave in the snow, through the snow, through the heat, for three years or whatever. And if they can stay steady, then the teacher says, "Okay, let's see. Let's give you some teaching." Or in the Jewish mystical tradition, some of the Kabbalistic traditions within the larger Jewish mystical set of traditions, some of them -- many of them, I think -- stipulate that you can't study Kabbalah, you can't enter into those kind of mystical practices and teachings, until you're at least 40 years old. Now, the kind of people who show up for that will have been saturated already with the sort of basic Jewish teachings and traditions and practices, and study of laws and rites and rituals, and all that. You've got all that prerequisite understanding and education before moving into these more esoteric teachings.

[21:38] So there are parallels in what I'm saying. I wouldn't want to be so rigid, myself. But it's really good to, you know, consider this maturely, this whole question of possible prerequisites. It's really good to have a kind of long vision with this stuff, to think about patience as a core element of actually any path. Thoroughness -- what is it to be thorough, to really be thorough, because I love something, because I care about something? And for me, caring about this path is also a way of caring about the world. Indubitably, indisputably, totally woven up, there's a kind of deep care, a manifesting of a deep care for the world in my caring for this path, in my caring for teaching about it. They go together.

If I love something, I'm going to be thorough. I'm not going to cut corners. I'm not going to build on shaky foundations. If I love my baby, my children, and I'm building them a pram or a walker or a bed, I'm going to make sure it's solid. I don't want it to be falling apart, because I care, because I love them. You know, the integrity of thoroughness, it's really just coming out of care and love, and the fullness of love, the fullness of desire, and the maturity of desire. So what is it to have, to incorporate -- and I use that word carefully: 'incorporate,' meaning really to bring it into being, into one's body, in fact, because all of this knowledge and know-how and skills and capacities, emotionally, energetically, even conceptually, goes into the body, 'incorporated' -- to incorporate good foundations, and really to bring an honesty in terms of what's needed, where we are, all of that? A steadiness of dedication and of practice. That goes with patience, obviously. Just an unshaking commitment. Just, "Yeah, this is what's involved. I'm up for it." And actually, one will find out that all the work, even when it's hard work, or healing work, or whatever, it's beautiful. It's soul-work, you know. And in all that, there's humility, and just this, the willingness of the lover, the willingness of the devotee.

I mentioned one time -- I can't remember in what retreat it was, and perhaps more than once -- some people do things very linearly: I do the sort of more commonly taught Dharma practices, and I take care of myself psychologically, and any kind of healing that needs to happen there, etc., and then I can start on the emptiness, and then the soulmaking, and it's all very linear like that. Great, if that's what works. For some people, it's really good to think about things that way. And other people, it's really not so linear, you know. Many people, some people, will be called to this, for example, this soulmaking work, and imaginal work, and sensing with soul, and all of that, and actually almost start there. That does make it more difficult, because then one has to develop all these other skills, perhaps in tandem, or perhaps stop for a while and develop them, or whatever.

So one might have some experience with these soulmaking practices and the soulmaking logos, and really kind of fall in love with it, and really see how fruitful it can be, as I said, but also, at some point, realize, "Hmm, there are some pieces here, there are some foundations, there's some incorporation that needs to happen." And that can happen in different ways: either by stopping for a while in a certain area, or slowing down, or it's possible in tandem. But again, all this implies an honesty with oneself, and maturity in a number of respects. And it's also something you can ask a teacher who is skilled in this kind of soulmaking teaching, who's versed in that and used to that, you know, "Do you think I could ...? What do you think I need?", or whatever. It's not to say the teacher's opinion is a decree or anything, but it's good to have some input like that.

Among the elements or foundations or pieces, if you like, that we've emphasized already in the past, I've placed great emphasis on energy body, awareness and skill with the energy body. And for some people -- I would say many, many people; in fact, most people -- developing that, I mean really developing it, takes years. So on the recent retreats, we've spent a day or two at the beginning focusing just on that, and then really emphasizing. We've asked people to have practised with that before they can even come to the retreats.

But generally it's quite a lot to develop that until one really feels comfortable and it becomes almost second nature, the energy body awareness and the different ways of working with it. It can really take years. That's not to say that one can't have quite a lot of fruitfulness and discovery and benefit from that quite quickly. But really making it almost like second nature and normal for one to be grounded in the energy body, with that whole awareness, with that whole range that's implicit in what we mean when we say 'energy body' (from really dense, solid, kind of earthy element experience, to very ethereal, and everything in between), and to develop the ways that the energy body is central and really useful in practices of samādhi and samatha, and mettā, and just generally as one mode of mindfulness of the body, how useful it is in insight practices, gauging whether we're on the right track or not in terms of what's useful in any moment, and also in imaginal practices, all of which I've touched on before. So this takes quite a while. Even if one just did that, it would be so beneficial, such a huge resource in one's life, in one's practice.

[28:57] And then particularly the energy body with regard to caring for and skill with our emotions and our emotional life, our heart life. To me, this skill and art with and awareness of our emotional life, and everything that goes on there, and really knowing, facility and flexibility with how to care for that, this really is indispensable for soulmaking. It's an absolutely necessary element. Actually, in the way that I would tend to teach the Dharma -- everything in the Dharma, whether it's mettā or whatever -- I would also really emphasize that, a lot of development of the art of emotional awareness and emotional care. I think it's so important for every aspect of the Dharma, every aspect. In terms of the way I conceive of the whole broad teaching of Dharma, I put that very, very centrally. I realize that not everyone does. Not all teachers do. But for me, it's a really key element in how I teach.

And again, tied in with the energy body, just what it can then open up -- having that confidence regarding one's emotions, and especially how they are in the body, having the understanding, having the facility and flexibility with working with them and caring for them and all that -- really, really important. I've talked a lot about working with the emotions and with mind states in the past. I can't remember the titles of the talks -- if I try to remember now, there are talks called "Emotional Healing," and "Emotions and Freedom," or "Mindfulness of Mind States." There's a three-set talk called "The Psychodynamics in Meditation."

There was a whole retreat I did once, if I remember, just focusing on working with the emotions. That was the main practice for the whole retreat. What was that called? The Boundless Heart, I think. Every morning I gave a different, very specific instruction with regard to emotional awareness. It's quite disciplined and circumscribed, each practice there. I think they were called "Working with the Emotional Body," and there are seven of them -- day one to seven. So there's all that available, if you want to check it out and really develop this. I really recommend that. Of course, it doesn't have to be those talks, and it certainly doesn't have to be me whose teachings you listen to on this subject. But I would really recommend (and again, it's part of the way I teach) that you develop, over time, or you're really comfortable with, you really have facility and flexibility with a whole range of approaches to working well with the heart life and the emotional life. There's another one called "Heart Work," I remember, in the context of a mettā retreat -- so emotions other than mettā during mettā.

[32:33] But so that we have the skills, the arts, and the confidence. How rare it is for human beings to actually feel really confident that whatever emotions come up, generally speaking, I'm confident that I can work with it on my own. It's not that I'm closed to working with it in relationship, and having other people input, etc., or sharing that with others, or in group process, or whatever it is. But I'm also confident that I, myself, can pretty much handle anything that comes up emotionally. That might mean that I have to grapple with it or play with it a little bit until I find just what approach proves fruitful or helpful. It might be a challenge, but I'm basically confident. And that's really, really possible. So part of this, what I'm really encouraging that we all develop, this set of skills or the art, and developing that confidence, is (I don't know what to call it) just a sort of habit. Maybe that's the best word: a habit, a sort of automatic, ingrained habit of awareness of the mind state and the emotional state.

Someone was asking me a little while ago about this, and I can't remember what exactly they asked, but I found myself saying to them, "That's interesting." I hadn't actually been aware of this, but I think because I have paid so much attention to my -- let's call it my heart life, my emotional life (and remember, emotions don't just happen in the heart area; they actually happen all over the body), just from so much habit, and years of psychotherapy, and years of work and journaling work in a very bodily way, and years of mindfulness meditation and insight meditation where that was central, and then incorporating very much into practices that we've developed with the energy body and other aspects of Dharma practice, because of all that, I think, it's almost like -- I'm sure it can't be true to say in every moment I'm just automatically aware of what the mind state and the emotional state is, but it feels true to say that, in most moments, it feels like it's just a sort of organic, automatic part of my awareness.

The point I want to make now is certainly nothing about me, but just that it's possible that we become much more aware of our emotional state. We're not foreigners to it, like, "Well, what am I feeling in my heart? I have no idea." Now, I remember when that was the case with me. Either I was off the scale with an emotion, or I just didn't know what I was feeling; I didn't recognize that I was actually feeling a certain emotion. It's a lot of work, or it can be a lot of work, but it can become really just part and parcel of one's normal state of awareness: there's an awareness of what the emotions are.

And by 'emotions*,'* I can use that interchangeably with the term 'mind states*,'* by which I also mean something much more subtle than what we usually call an 'emotion,' just like what the really subtle texture of the mind and the heart are right now, where they're a little bit cramped because I'm a little bit tired, it's kind of a neutral keel or whatever, nothing remarkable, just a little bit peaceful, just slightly a bit bored -- whatever it is. And really gross emotions as well. So there's a development of the awareness, again, over the whole range, so that we both have the capacity and willingness to feel, but also the willingness to be aware of intense emotions, the ability to feel intense emotions -- the heart is big -- and really subtle emotions, the capacity to notice their really subtle shades and discriminations. Tied in with that is, yes, this development of the sensitivity to make fine discriminations between really -- maybe we don't even have the words -- between these subtly different heart states, mind states. Then, again, part of the whole art is really to care for them and have, as I said, different approaches of caring, and a facility and flexibility with all that.

And understanding my emotions. That's a big subject. What does that mean, to understand one's emotions? It means quite a lot. But part (and one thing I'll say right now) is also understanding, included in what I mean by 'understanding' the emotions is also understanding how the very conceptual framework that we're entertaining at any time (whether we're conscious of it or not, whether we articulate it clearly or not) actually has an impact on the experience of the emotion and how that emotion unfolds. In other words, an emotion is not separate from whatever I'm conceiving or whatever conceptual framework is operating at the time. That's part of understanding emotions. It's quite a deep or subtle part, but it's actually part of it. There are lots of other parts too.

So all this with the emotions takes time for most people. Not for everyone. Some people just have that. They're educated in their upbringing and parents and school. They were fortunate enough to have that. I don't feel I was. So it takes time, you know. And that takes patience. It can take courage, you know? Courage to be willing to feel some of what moves through the heart and the emotions, because it's intense, or because we're scared: "What will happen if I feel this? Or what does it mean about me?", and all that. It also takes honesty. But it's so, so worth it. To have, to develop that art is so worth it, and really, really possible.

Now, I want to say just a couple of things. It's more general stuff that I've probably said before, and I just want to re-emphasize it in the context of this talk. I want to say a couple of other things with regard to emotional awareness, and the art of being with one's emotions well, caring for them. I talked about having a flexibility of different approaches, a facility to engage different ways of relating to what's going on emotionally. This, I think, is just worth lingering on a little bit, if I may. Partly I'm saying this because the Buddha talked about emotions. If you like, we could say it's an element of the third foundation of mindfulness, mindfulness of mind states, the citta, mindfulness of the citta. And then different traditions, or different teachers, might emphasize different ways of relating to the emotions and the mind states in the context of the third foundation of mindfulness. So it's very common that it's taught, of course. Actually, some people don't, but generally it's quite common.

However, you might have been exposed to, or just out of habit, kind of narrowed down the range and the field of possibility, of possible ways that you can skilfully relate to the emotion, to what's going on emotionally. You might have narrowed down -- through no fault of your own, or just through habit, or just what you've been exposed to -- narrowed down the range of approaches and ways of relating skilfully to what's going on emotionally or in the mind state.

(1) So some people will have been exposed to a kind of practice that encourages a very intense, narrow laser beam of intention on an emotion as it manifests in the body, in terms of vedanā in the body or just sensations in the body. This can become, "That's the way that I pay attention to emotions in my meditation practice." And sometimes, for some people, if they do enough meditation in this way, and that's the sole way of paying attention, of being mindful of the emotions, and there's quite a lot of intensity there to their practice, it can become that's the way they pay attention to emotions in their life. There's this kind of laser beam to the sensations. Now, for some emotions, for some people, at some times, that can be really beneficial. Really amplifying the energy of the attention, the intensity of the energy, and focusing it very intensely and energetically, gathering the energy in the mindfulness, focusing intensely on the sensations in the body -- in the throat, or around the mouth, or the heart, or in the belly, or whatever it is. And that can be really, really helpful with certain emotions at certain times, partly because of the energy involved. I've talked about this before, so I'm not going to go into it now.

[42:55] At other times, or for other emotions, that's a really unskilful way of paying attention! [laughs] Sometimes what happens is it just basically obliterates what's going on, so we lose touch with the emotion, and we don't actually get any degree of nuanced awareness or sensitivity in terms of what's going on for us emotionally. And sometimes it's not helpful for the emotion. It kind of burns it in a way that is just adding hurt if it's a painful emotion, you know, or adding a kind of wounding, or we're missing something. Through the laser beam focus, we miss something of the bigger, more delicate picture.

(2) So a second possibility is a much more delicate awareness. We're still focusing, for instance, on the sensations, in the body, of the emotion. But it's as if we have, again, a kind of dial for the intensity of our attention. It might be that we can put it all the way on 10, laser beam, or put it all the way down to 1, and it's just very, very light. Some of you have heard me use the analogy of it's just like a feather touching the lightest piece of cloth, just with the lightest touch. The attention is just touching. Very, very light, very delicate, the awareness. So something like sadness can be quite a fragile feeling. Not only that we feel fragile when we're sad, but the actual feeling itself is fragile. So I need to approach it with a very delicate attention in order to learn about it, in order to care for it. It's as if we can develop, eventually, with practice, part of the art is developing this fader switch or dial, how delicate or (whatever the opposite) intense, if you like, or heavy-handed, if you like -- that's not such a good word -- is the attention to the sensations of the emotion in the body.

(3) Then a third possibility might be that we hold. The attention is less of a kind of beam that goes out towards the sensations of the emotion, and more a kind of holding, as if (metaphorically) the attention is more like the hands gently cupped, and the sensations of the emotion are just lightly resting, safe and gentle, but not crushed, within the holding of the metaphorical cupped hands, the holding of the awareness. So the awareness itself has some holding in it.

(4) Sometimes part of that, or a way of doing that, is to infuse the awareness -- this might be a fourth possibility -- infuse the awareness with kindness. I remember teaching a retreat ages ago, and talking about this, and someone coined the term 'kindfulness*,'* which I think is now used by some people. It's mindfulness, it's awareness, but you're sort of turning up the dial of the kindness in it. That, too, can have not just a dial but lots of different qualities to it, or ways that that can manifest, because (i) we can be kind to the sensations. (ii) You can be kind to the emotions, which is a slightly different thing: I'm not reducing the emotions to sensations. And then, thirdly (iii), I could be kind to the self who is experiencing this, say, difficult emotion. This kindness introduces a kind of softness around. Some of you have heard me use that image of just gentle, warm water lapping against a sharp rock. The kindness that's infusing the awareness is just lapping gently against the difficult, hard emotion. It's that softness around it, it's that warmth around it, it's the contact of the difficulty with the kindness, with the softness around it, that actually promotes healing.

(5) As I said before, we could delineate or differentiate between possibilities where one's actually just paying attention to the sensations. So it's almost like the mode of awareness doesn't -- not interested in the story, it's not interested in the self, even, the 'poor me,' and the kind of sense of self that's having these emotions. It's not even so much interested in what exactly the emotion is, because sometimes we don't even know; there's not a word for it. But even if it is aware of the emotion, it's just paying attention at the level of the sensations. So less to do with what the emotions are, and less to do with what the self is, less concerned with that. And again, useful, but if it's the only way we ever pay attention to our emotions ... yikes. Quite limited, and probably not that psychologically healthy in the long-term. But a really good option at times.

(6) Then there's a sort of middle-level focus, if you like, where we're not so much getting into the story, and not so much getting into the self, but we are caring for this emotion. We really have a sense, with the sensations, what the emotion is. There's a sense of more richness or fullness to the experience. We're not going for this kind of reductionist attention (which can, as I said, be really helpful at times). We're going for something medium range, if you like. So I really sense this is sadness, but I'm not getting into the story of it. I'm not getting so much into the self that's constellated with the sadness. I'm just staying -- it's just the sadness, with the sensations.

(7) And then another one. Perhaps this is the seventh. This list, again, is not exhaustive, and not so clearly delineated, but I hope you can understand what I'm getting at here. A seventh possibility is that we actually allow the self and the sense of self. We include the sense of self in the emotional awareness. So yes, the sensations, yes, the emotion, and yes, the self. What can often happen with mindfulness teachings is that we kind of get the sense that the self is not okay, or it shouldn't be in the picture. Story is certainly not okay. Self is not so okay. And we get used to just the sensations, or just the emotion. Again, really good practice. Really good to have that gear, have that facility to be able to look in a way that just looks underneath the self, so to speak. It's just this emotion, with these sensations, and that's what I'm mindful of, and that's what I'm with, and I'm just steady with my attention there.

But often what happens with long-term mindfulness meditators, people who have been schooled in the mindfulness tradition -- and again, I'm sharing from experience: this is something that I got into in my early years in practice, and kind of, "Hold on. I have to recalibrate the lens possibilities here on my awareness or my attention." But another possibility is actually letting the self constellate, including the self. So the attention includes the sense of self, and the care, includes the care for this self. So it's not just this emotion or these sensations, but I'm caring for me. It's me who is feeling sad. It's me who is feeling grief. It's me who is feeling angry, and that me, right now, needs care. Yes, I know it's empty. Yes, I know all that. But right now we're addressing that self. We're including that. I'm not focusing so closely that I don't see that, yeah? So that's another possibility.

[52:02] When we open that possibility, this seventh possibility, then we could say that actually splits into a few sub-possibilities. We could say, well, which self? Self is a fabrication. In other words, self can be fabricated a lot or a little, or this way or that way. If I say I'm going to include my self, which self? This opens up all kinds of possibilities.

(i) One possibility. And again, if you have these kinds of other pieces of practice under your belt, it can be really, really helpful. One possibility is knowing that the self is empty: "I know that the self is a construct." But let it be fabricated quite lightly. So here's this sadness, and here are these sensations. I'm aware of them. But I'm not kind of not seeing the self and not caring for the self. But the self that I'm letting arise is quite light. It's not a really heavy, dense, contracted self. (We'll come to that in a minute, that possibility.) But one possibility is knowing the self to be empty, and just letting it be fabricated a little bit. So you have a kind of light sense of self with the sensations and with the emotion. Just a lightly fabricated self, so to speak.

(ii) A second possibility, if we go back to this, "Well, which self?", if we're including the self in the emotional awareness, a second possibility is an imaginal self, or a self that's, if you like, imbued with imaginal perception. Part of that, remember, is the imaginal Middle Way. To say 'an imaginal self' is not the same as a habitual self-image that is viewed as real and believed in: "I'm a loser. I'm a failure. I'm this kind of person. I'm bad," etc. An imaginal self is not a reified self-view or habitual self-image. But a second possibility here, in the larger possibility of including the self-awareness and the self-care in the caring for the emotions, is a kind of imaginal self. So this loneliness that I might feel is the loneliness of that wanderer. This weariness or courage or nobility is the weariness of that warrior. And it's mine, in the way that there's this infinite echoing and mirroring that we talked about, this part of the imaginal. It's mine, too, but it's this warrior's, or this wanderer's, or whatever. Or it's Avalokiteśvara's compassion, or whatever it is, Avalokiteśvara's empathy, whatever. It's Jesus's heart, the sacred heart of Jesus. All kinds of possibilities there, obviously. Infinite possibilities there. But it's not the same as just the habitual, problematic, constricted, over-solid and reified, believed in self-image.

(iii) A third sub-possibility of this seventh possibility of including the self in the awareness of the emotions and the sensations is actually you let the self be reified. It's okay, you know? As I've said many times, yeah, in the big picture of things, we know the self is empty. But at times it's important -- and probably for a lot of people, for long stretches of their practice -- it's important to just inhabit that view of a reified self, and relate to that healthily, relate to that in a way that's fruitful, rather than just say, "I can't have self-awareness. I can't have a self-sense. I can't have a self-view." Until there's really quite a lot of emptiness, that will be very, very common, and even to the point of "I don't even know that it's empty." It's quite a lot of emptiness practice just to let it reify at times, and somewhere in our awareness we know it's empty, but we're not leaning on that knowledge of its emptiness.

That takes quite a lot of practice -- many years, probably, for most people. There's going to be, "Well, mostly I deal with a reified sense of self. I've heard this thing about emptiness. I've glimpsed a little bit about it, but not in any way that really makes too much difference yet." So given that's the picture, I need to find ways of relating to the reified self, either with the whole story that goes with it, or stories that go with it, or just the self without the story. Can you see? There are all kinds of possibilities here. The reason I'm mentioning it is just because, in some interviews in the last couple of years, I kind of was aware, "Oh, that's really interesting. People, especially people who have done a lot of mindfulness practice, have gotten into a habit of paying attention to sensations or 'bare emotions' (so to speak), but without the caring for the self." It's like, "Oh, there's a whole dimension missing there that's really important." Because again, if you miss some of these things out, it will have consequences.

So there are all these possibilities. And again, there's the possibility of facility and fluidity and flexibility with all of that. Just to dwell on that last possibility, the third possibility of the seventh. So sometimes with a reified self, and that's okay, and sometimes with the story, you know? Our story that I'm believing, and this real self that I'm believing, and all the pain of that and the history. And still, that's the perspective, that's the conceptual framework, way of looking. What's the healing, opening, fertilizing, helpful way of looking at that, of relating to that? There's a set of three talks that I mentioned, "The Psychodynamics in Meditation." If I remember, a lot of those talks were really dealing with that, a reified self, and just some of the skilful ways of looking, and conceptions, and approaches regarding the psychology and the emotionality of that. As I said before, anything I refer to: this is such a huge area, the emotions. It's so endlessly rich and fertile. Whatever I mention here, it's only part of the bigger picture.

Sometimes what happens, though, when we include the story and the reified self, it's always going to be from the perspective of some psychological framework or other, some school of psychology or another, even if we're not aware of what it is or that we're doing that. We can't help [but] bring in a conceptual framework -- in this case, a psychological conceptual framework. So what I want to return to, also in this talk later on, is the need, I think, on the one hand, not to lock into any particular psychological view -- the view of, "This psychological school looks at it this way and interprets things this way, and this is the truth of what happened," or "This one does it this way." You start to realize there are all kinds of different conceptions, and all kinds of different approaches, and all kinds of possibilities. To really be open to that, and not too quickly lock into a certain view, and then just become entrenched there as, "This is the truth of me and my history and the story. This is the true fact of what happened," not realizing it's an interpretation according to a particular conceptual framework, and that there are others possible.

Having said that, it may well be that, at certain times on our journey, individually, each of us may need to kind of lock into a certain view, and really dig in there with a certain psychological view and interpretation and way of working, whether it's this or that way. It might be necessary, just for our particular larger trajectory, that for a time we look that way. Hopefully, then, after a while with that, we can say, "Oh, I don't need this any more. What else is possible?" Then it still becomes an option, looking that way, but we're not so locked in, entrenched, and effectively imprisoned by something, and what can be quite narrow-minded and, if I think back to some of my history, quite dogmatic sort of entrenchment. Oftentimes, what happens is people get fixed on a psychological system or logos, and don't realize that depending on the logos, depending on the psychological conceptual framework, different experiences and different directions actually unfold from whatever is going on and whatever history we have.

Okay. That's enough for now. But the main point there was to, in our awareness of and care for the life of the heart, the emotional life, we want to include at times the possibility of including the self and self-awareness, in various degrees of fabrication and directions of fabrication, in our awareness and care.

[1:02:42] Let's touch on just one more piece about working with the emotions. I mentioned those seven instructions ("Working with the Emotional Body," I think they were called), a sequence of seven instructions and guided meditations. I'm just throwing this in, but if you do feel moved to check them out, or you find yourself doing that, just to say a little bit about that. It's almost like they're very circumscribed in what they're trying to do. So again, I think the emotions is a kind of infinitely rich and infinitely expanding area for human inquiry. Human beings, I think, are never going to exhaust the infinite possibilities of ways of understanding emotions and ways of relating to emotions. It's just, one of the deep mysteries of human existence is our heart life.

So those particular seven exercises on that retreat, it's really not to say, "Okay, that's it. Now you know everything you ever need to know about working with emotions." They're really quite tightly focused sets of practices, partly given exactly for the reason that what often happens in regard to our emotional life is we're all a bit at sea. Either things are too subtle, and we don't have the awareness needed to notice what's going on, or when something intense is going on, it's so big and we're so thrown about by it that we can't really get a grip on it in a way that's helpful and fruitful. So those practices are deliberately narrowly focused, very tightly circumscribed.

One way of looking at that is to regard them as kind of like exercises. It's a bit like practising scales at the piano. Potentially, they can sort of prepare us or develop our facility and capacity to work well with strong and live emotions when they arise. It might be the practices themselves feel a little funny. I mean, some people love them. But one way of understanding what they are is they're just like playing scales at the piano. So when you actually go to play the pieces that you love, or you're improvising, and you're in the heat of, the flow of the moment, you have the facility to work well both with intense and also with subtle emotions and experiences in the heart.

So that's one way of looking at them, if that's helpful. But not just as exercises. They can also be regarded as practices in their own right, which do a few things or open up a few directions. In other words, they're not just scales; they're actually practices which open up certain directions. One is they can potentially open up to us the world of subtle experience, subtle energy, and subtle emotions. Again, this is often an area that human beings, for lots of good reasons, haven't really developed, that subtlety in relation to the emotional life, of noticing and caring. That possibility can be opened up through those practices. It's an avenue into subtlety, into making subtlety accessible, etc.

Second way they are practices that can actually open up their own fruits and realms and directions is that you will probably find, if you really spend a little time with those seven exercises, that they can -- at least some of them -- can lead or will lead to some samādhi, and oftentimes really quite deep samādhi, when the practices are sustained. I can't remember if I explain it there, but it might be that one starts with, let's say, a little bit of sadness in the heart, or somewhere else in the body, and one's paying attention to it in a way, and finding the right kind of frequency, and modulating the attention in a caring way, finding, "Ah, yeah, that really helps," and being with it, and being with it. Maybe it goes through a few different phases or needs, and you respond to them. And then maybe one just keeps focusing on it after all that, and the whole thing, just through the caring, appropriate focus, can just gradually get more and more subtle, more and more quiet. It's not that we're denying it. It's not that we're out of touch with it. It's not that we're telling it to behave itself and don't be so damn silly, or anything remotely like that. But just through the sustained attention and the appropriate and caring attention there, the whole being, including the emotionality, just gets more and more subtle, more and more quiet, goes into some kind of samādhi or other. So those practices, one of the possibilities of opening there, is as a way into samādhi.

Thirdly for now (I just want to mention this, again, if you do happen to play with those seven practices on those instructions, recordings), that it's possible that, through playing with them, what becomes much more evident than is usually the case for human beings is the dependent arising, the dependent origination and dependent cessation of our emotions. Those practices, because they're so circumscribed, I'm very clear what I'm trying to do. When I pay attention this way, when I think that way, then I see the emotion sort of getting more difficult, or more easy, or softening, or being blended with care, and transforming, or healing, or whatever. So through being quite precise and focused and sustaining what one is trying to do in the meditation in these seven instructions that I gave on those talks, the dependent origination of emotions is revealed to us.

Dependent origination, as you will know, is a crucially important insight. In regard to emotions, I view it as -- it's not the be-all and end-all of what we need to understand with regard to emotions, but it's so, so important. It's so crucial. It makes such a difference to our lives, our practices, and just our whole understanding of ourselves and others when we understand that. It's not the whole truth. It's not everything. But it's a really important strand.

Okay. So we've mentioned just briefly a lot of factors. We've dwelt a little bit on the energy body tonight, and a little longer on the emotions, and what might be involved in the prerequisite or need for emotional awareness and emotional care, skill, the art of all of that, and the range and flexibility and facilities there. A little bit related to that, or partly related to that, I've noticed something over the past couple of years. That is that, for many -- I don't know if it's for most people, but it might be most people -- soulmaking happens perhaps more readily in relationship with other human beings, especially those also interested in soulmaking, than it might on one's own. Happens more in relationship, or more readily in relationship, for many people -- let's just say that. Or, what we could say, more accurately, we could say at least eros and image are activated -- and perhaps activated and ignited a lot -- in relationship, and particularly in relationship with other people interested in soulmaking, than they might be on one's own. People are different. There are exceptions. But I would say that.

The question, though, is whether eros is activated just in its sort of small meaning, or whether the eros is really allowed to activate and ignite the whole eros-psyche-logos dynamic, the whole soulmaking dynamic -- fertilize, enrich, complicate, widen, deepen, all that, their interplay and interrelationship -- and that whole soulmaking dynamic is actually ignited and turning in a way that sustains. Or whether something, as I said, just flares up quickly and then fades out, fizzles out; whether something flares up with a lot of intensity (either eros or image or something), and then it breaks down, or something short-circuits, so to speak, or a fuse is blown, if you like, or it just gets snuffed out by having the wrong kind of air, or the wrong kind of environment, or something heavy landing on it or whatever, to use those metaphors.

[1:12:42] So it's often in relationship. And the question is, what actually allows the eros and image that might arise in relationship? Just being around, interacting with other soulmakers doing this kind of stuff, what allows that to be soulmaking, genuinely soulmaking, in a way that can be sustaining? Because part of the way problems can arise, or, if you like, the eros-psyche-logos dynamic is disrupted, or inhibited, or squelched, or whatever, is exactly in relationship with each other or around relationship with each other. It's there sometimes, where that's one of the ways that we can run into problems. So what that means is that it's a really good idea to have developed our psychological awareness, our emotional awareness -- not just in ourselves, but also of others.

That doesn't mean telling other people what's going on for them or all that, but being able to have that in relationship, and some degree of having that sensitivity (that may be a better way of putting it) and openness to another's psychological, emotional, energetic process, while we have our own and have that awareness, sensitivities, capacities. All of that, plus it might ask of us -- and I think it does; I think what this soulmaking work does ask of us is relational skills, as I mentioned earlier. That includes communication skills: really being able to communicate well with another, to listen well, to work through difficulties well, to communicate difficulties well, to be precise, to be sensitive, to be caring, to be appreciative, all of that.

So if we just unpack this a little bit: when soulmaking happens, as we said, eros is a factor. So eros tends to come up or arise or be ignited when there's soulmaking going on, or we catch that flame from another, or in a field, or whatever it is. Even if we're not working deliberately in an erotic-imaginal soulmaking dyad, even if that's not the case, there can be, just in the field, with the eros that's arising -- which might be eros for something else entirely -- in the way that the soulmaking dynamic can work as we've described before in past retreats, the eros might spread to be directed or in relationship to a fellow soulmaker. I didn't start with it, but now I have an erotic-imaginal connection, if you like, or ignition with this other soulmaker.

It's really good to be aware of this. It's a possibility. And then that asks us -- what tends to happen when there's eros and someone becomes image for us is that all our patterns, or some of our patterns around intimate contact with other human beings, get elicited, triggered, activated, ignited as well. For some people, that's a fear of rejection: as soon as I have the eros, and this person becomes alive for me as an erotic-imaginal other, then that kicks in my fear of rejection, or my fear of getting hurt, or my fear of loss, or some kind of fear. Or a projection of rejection, or an anticipation of fear, whatever. So it's not even I'd just assume it's already happened or something. Or I find myself or I find the other one bringing in, dragging in, needs that don't really belong in this relationship. They're perhaps, so to speak, old needs, or needs that belong in a different kind of relationship, where a whole different set of rules are established and understood. Again, we may be aware of that. We may be not aware of it. Whether in ourselves or others, we can be aware or not aware of all of that. Then there's just the other person's patterns and reactions, and how I react to their reactions, and my patterns when someone else ... All this [is] possible. So again, to have some awareness, some skill, some sensitivity, some discernment, some willingness with all of that -- really, really useful.

One element within all that, which I've talked about before, and I can't remember in what retreat (it might have been the Re-enchanting the Cosmos retreat), was just the element about what happens for us as human beings -- I very much think it's endemic in modern culture; I was going to say Western, but it's probably global: modern Westernized culture -- around being seen, being seen by another, and being seen by another who is important to us, all of that.

For many people, there's a curious, painful mixture in the being of a kind of need to be seen, an intense and deep need to be seen, a wanting to be seen, and a fear to be seen, to be seen deeply, fully, openly. All that kind of gets mixed in a way that's confusing and uncomfortable, and causes all manner of shunting back and forth, and opening and closing, and hiding. I think, in the way that I see the soulmaking work and see the nature of soul, I would say that soul -- the soul, your soul, my soul, or the divine in me -- wants to be seen. It wants to be seen. It wants to express itself, to manifest itself in the world, and to be recognized for what it manifests. It wants its particular beauties, its particular way it refracts the divine (to go back to the past talk and what I was sharing there), it refracts the divine light and numinosity, the particular style of that, the way it sings of the beauty and the depths, and the infinite creations and discoveries of soul and the divine. It wants that and needs that, perhaps, to be seen. That's a kind of, I would say, healthy soul-desire and healthy need.

But at the same time, being seen, I think, in our culture, because of the culture of individuality, and actually all kinds of reasons -- just, in many ways, a kind of brutality of our culture with regard to some aspects of soul and sensitivity; lots of reasons, though -- being seen can be very loaded for us, or for some people, for many people. It carries with it, it brings with it, a lot of pain and confusion that's often unresolved. What's often unresolved, as well, is this mix. We get quite confused. And sometimes the being seen is more an ego thing (I'll go into this, hopefully, in this talk), and it's kind of that we want our ego to be boosted, or we want to hide, or we're ashamed, we're riddled with shame, or we have this core feeling of being bad, and so we want to hide that, at the same time that we recognize, that we know somewhere our soul's beauty, and that that is the beauty of the divine; they're not separate. And our particular soul's beauty, the particular way that that divine beauty comes through us, that divine mystery comes through us, expresses itself in and through us. Some part of us knows that, too, and so it's quite common to be really quite confused, and confused by the messages we get in the culture, certainly, but also confused just in our own psychology and heart and soul because of our history with all that.

In all of this, again, if we just linger on the relational skills piece, if you like, of soulmaking, we don't sometimes realize just how sensitive we are and how sensitive is the other in relationship -- in some ways, how vulnerable is the soul, and how vulnerable is the soul of the other, in some ways, or at some level, let's say. So again, here there's a lot of self-honesty, there's a lot of sensitivity and awareness that is asked for.

Fourthly, we could mention (which we've talked about before) the ask of handling erotic charge, and sometimes handling sexual charge, sexual erotic charge. Is that okay with me? Is that okay with the mind, or does it meet some kind of censorship, or some kind of inhibition or block? Can I handle it appropriately and keep the boundary? How to do that? What helps with that? Do I even notice what's going on with that? We've talked a lot about what helps there. I may or may not go into it again on this set of talks. Similarly with desire, we talked a lot about how to handle the current of desire in a way that's actually helpful. And similarly, how to handle or relate to images when they arise. We've said so many times: if I reify and literalize and concretize this image, oftentimes, most often, it's going to cause some problem. So can I relate to the image, and allow it to become fully imaginal and, in that, allow the imaginal Middle Way, the theatre element, to open up if it needs to?

[1:24:13] So handling all that (eros, desire, the imaginal) skilfully, handling our own energies and emotions and psychological patterns. All this, we could say, all these things, factors, are part of the prerequisites, if we use that word, the foundations, for fertile and sustainable soulmaking in relationship with others. As I said, for many people, that's where it actually tends to happen. So this deliberate soulmaking dyad, where there's deliberately the investigation, the opening, the exploration, the focus on, the inclusion of, the other as beloved erotic-image, and opening that up with mindfulness, sensitivity, care, creativity and discovery ... we're not teaching that yet. [laughs] That probably is something I wouldn't hesitate to add the word 'advanced' to. But there are elements of some of the same skills that will be necessary for that, in a maybe less urgent need, just because where most people will most readily have the soulmaking be ignited is in relationship with other soulmakers.

Again, please, I don't want this to sound discouraging. I don't mean to overwhelm you. All of this is possible. You can make it, "That's a huge list, and blah blah blah, and there's all this stuff," but it really is possible, and interesting to develop, and really, really useful stuff to develop that is definitely possible. It's definitely possible that we grow in these capacities, we gain these skills, we develop these arts. Absolutely possible. I'm not talking about anything that is not possible at all. What would be the point of talking about it if it wasn't possible?

A little bit related, or very much related. I don't know whether you've noticed this with these practices, and with talking with others about these practices, or in some of the dyad work we've done on retreats and stuff. I don't know if you've noticed how vulnerable it can be, and sacred as well -- there's a relationship there: it's vulnerable because it's sacred -- how vulnerable it can be to share images with another person. This, to me, is really interesting.

Sometimes a person might share a trauma history or some kind of psychological difficulty with others or in a group interview or with another practitioner, and that seems often to feel less vulnerable and intimate -- for many people, maybe most people -- than sharing imaginal images that are really potent for oneself, even though one is likely to identify less with an imaginal image than a (if we say) purely human or flatly human history or condition or fact. So even when one is identifying less with the imaginal, when that imaginal image is potent, it's actually somehow more vulnerable to share it than to share a really difficult psychological thing we have, or some even abuse history or trauma history. It's quite interesting. So the imaginal has, intrinsically, as we've said, a quality of autonomy and otherness from self -- this imaginal figure, for instance. And yet, baring that to the world, and standing connected to it but apart from it (baring it, but feeling I'm connected to this, I'm standing with it in my sharing, and baring it, opening it, sharing it with the world, standing connected to it but apart from it), that seems vulnerable, despite this otherness and autonomy of the image that's intrinsic to the imaginal.

I've touched on this before, but to me it suggests -- and from a slightly different perspective -- that what is most essential and important to the soul is not the, if you like, 'flatly' or 'simply human' identity (there has to be a better way of putting that). Traditional developmental psychology, or it's common for developmental psychologies to put this flatly or purely human identity, and not soul and soulmaking, at the core of its theories. There's always talking about this kind of flatly human-level self, and the hurt there, etc., that's the core of the theories and the driver of its processes. I may return to this later on. But, you know, it's interesting. I've noticed this a lot with people. Revealing the angel, so to speak, revealing the angel is harder, closer, more intimate, truer, and more authentic, even in its patent fictionality, than revealing the flatly conceived human self, the self of normal human discourse, of conventional psychological discourse. Revealing the angel seems harder, closer, more intimate, somehow more authentic and truer, than revealing the flatly conceived human self.

This leads me to a final point about something I've mentioned before, a word called temenos, which is another Greek word that means sort of 'sanctuary,' or the enclosure around an orchard is also, I think, a temenos. A sacred space, a protective space, something like that: temenos. I just want to say a couple of things about this. I'm mentioning it now because of the relational piece and the care that's needed there, as an element of the care that's needed there in relation, as an element of the care for our soulmaking and an element of soulmaking practice, because of how soulmaking happens; and also because of what I've just said about how vulnerable it can feel to share images with another human being, because of the sacredness involved there.

In other words, it's not helpful to just spout out an image without taking care of the space that I'm in, the relational field that I'm in, the timing. Where is the other person at? Are they paying attention? Are they being respectful? Are they open? Are they sensitive? Am I paying attention? Am I attuned? Am I in touch with my body? Am I just rushing it? Am I present? Am I showing up? Am I in relationship? Is it the right location? Is it private enough? All kinds of things. Really, really caring for the self, for the soul, for this work, and for the image, if you like. Again, if an imaginal figure is a person, if we're talking about an imaginal figure -- and that includes this tree that is in the park where I go for a walk, and my sense of that tree, my sensing that tree with soul. Everyone can see the tree. Everyone can feel the hardness of that bark. But a lot of people will not be sensing it with soul, or even sometimes I won't be sensing it with soul. Whatever we're talking about here, we're talking about a person and something worthy of respect.

So a temenos -- we could say 'tabernacle' as another word, or 'sanctum.' It's needed to support the sharing of images in ways that are soulmaking. We might share an image, but if we want that sharing to be soulmaking, and possibly even fertilize something for the other person and for ourselves in the sharing, a temenos, tabernacle or sanctum, some kind of care for the space, the field wherein that sharing is happening is needed, to care for the soul, to support the soulmaking there and the persons involved, and to respect all that, respect the soul, respect the imaginal perceptions, what's sensed there, and the persons. These words are words that are associated with religious ritual, temples and sacredness in the past -- the temenos, the tabernacle, the sanctum. Obviously we get our word 'sanctification' from that word, 'sanctum.' Just as one would treat a divinity. Again, this doesn't need to be too heavy -- I'll come back to that -- or too rigid. But there's something of a kind of reverence for the relational field, for the sharing, for the space, that's really important here -- just as one would treat a divinity, a god. Just as one would be in the presence of a god, and one would create for the presence or in the presence of a god.

[1:34:58] Now, someone might say, "But that sounds like some kind of religious dogma and realism. You're saying this is divine, and you're saying you need this thing." Okay. If someone were to say something like that, we could explain it more like this: we could say that in order that you have the sense, the perception, the felt sense of divinity, arise in a way that is soulmaking for you and/or for another (and the sense of divinity, remember, is an aspect, an element, a dimension, of the imaginal constellation, of the sensing with soul that we talked about, in the way that we're using those terms), in order that you have that sense, that actual experience of the divine, or at least the dimensionality and the moving into the sense of divinity of the erotic-imaginal other, of what is sensed with soul, you need to treat an image in a particularly caring and respectful way -- that is, with some kind of temenos or sanctum, as I've just said.

That's not a religious dogma, or like, "You need to do this special rite now" or anything. It's just a psychological insight: you need to care for this stuff. You need to care for these experiences. You need to care for these senses that you have of things. And you need to care for your self and other in relationship around them. It's just a psychological insight. It's just an insight, also, into the dependent arising of perception. In other words, if I don't care for this possibility of a certain perception -- in this case, a perception of divinity -- that perception of divinity either won't arise, or it won't arise in the other, or it won't get communicated, or it might be there to start and then it will just be dissolved because it doesn't have the vessel (if we use the alchemical term). It doesn't have the temenos, the tabernacle.

So a temenos can be supported by actually ritualizing the time and space. That's one way of supporting it. Or creating a ritualized space together. I mean, that may involve -- I don't know -- candles and incense. It may not, but it might. And such things might serve the intention. They might serve, absolutely. An interview between a teacher and a student is also a kind of ritualized space: there's a form, and you sit in a certain way, and there's a time frame, and there's a very specific intention, and there's the kind of focus there.

At the same time, though, it's not just a matter of form or ritual. A formal or ritual space does not guarantee a temenos. The presence of the temenos is actually a subjective thing, anyway, right? It's not something you can objectify. Just because I burn some incense and light a candle, and burn some sage or whatever it is, I'm not necessarily creating a temenos. It's a subjective thing. It's an experience, or an element of experience, that one or more people have. It depends, also, on the qualities of attention, sensitivity, openness, emotional attunement, conceptual attunement, emotional and energy body awareness. All these factors are really necessary elements in creating a temenos, in establishing a temenos. Without any one of those, it will probably fall apart. That's why I said an interview -- it's partly because a lot of those qualities are gathered together there in the interview format. So it's not so much the rituals themselves. It's just that these factors are, themselves -- these, if you like, factors of soul, factors of consciousness, factors of intention are themselves more likely to be gathered together and supported through establishing some kind of ritual or special vessel or space. In other words, the burning of the candle or the incense does help sometimes to gather those qualities of consciousness and qualities of intention, but it's really those that make the space.

One last thing about the temenos for now. A little bit related to what we just said: I don't think there are definite rules in establishing a temenos. Nor is it always that a temenos is only created or always created by or in a formal space or time. It's rather that the soulmaking that is possible in relationship, through sharing images and perceptions, etc., is fragile. It's easily fractured. It's easily smothered. It's easily covered over. It's easily withdrawn. It's easily deprived of its ground or, if we borrow an alchemical metaphor, its incubating vessel. That's another word for temenos, an incubating vessel.

So, for example, a pressure -- some kind of pressure emanating from one person to another, from one party to the other, some kind of demand, some kind of a need that is not openly expressed. I'm bringing this need and this demand to this interaction where an image is being shared -- either I'm sharing with you, or you're sharing with me or the group -- and either it's not okay or it's not really clear that that's what's going on. Or it's got other, less obvious or slightly murky complexities attached to it, this need or this demand that I'm bringing, and I'm not quite aware of it. That's enough. Something like that, that kind of pressure or influx, is enough to puncture or collapse any possibility of temenos there, and then the soulmaking in that moment, and what the other person can take in, and what can ignite in them, and what happens to one's own soulmaking.

With a temenos, part of that is in the realm of relational skills. So again, the necessity of relational skills, sensitivities and attunements, in order for soulmaking to be possible in relationship with another. It's clear it's part of what's involved in creating a temenos, and soulmaking is helped by a temenos. Sometimes we're deliberate in the creation of that. Sometimes it's very easy -- it's just a very easily established thing. And other times it's like we have to take a little care and find our way that we create a temenos here.

But again, all of this, everything I've said tonight, I really want to be encouraging and not discouraging and, at the same time, point out that there's this, and there's this, and this is the way to really care for this if you love, if you feel drawn, if you have the desire to explore these things. It's good to take all this into consideration and build things, and sometimes that's slow and gradual, and sometimes it's much easier. But it's all doable. It's all developable, everything that I've talked about. It's all accessible.

And to walk this path, and to develop these facets and these building blocks, if you like, and these foundations, is such a gift, you know? These are gifts to oneself, all of this: the emotional awareness, the energy body awareness, the relational skill, the taking care of spaces, the awareness of all that, and the capacity to tend and care for all that. All of these things that I've mentioned, and others that I've mentioned this evening, such a gift to oneself, for one's practice, for these particular practices, for one's wider practice, and for one's existence, for one's life. Also (I think you can probably hear this) really a gift to others, and actually a gift to the world, to develop this. Really doable, really developable, really possible. There for us if we want it, the fruits, the bounties, the beauty of all this.